Dr. Kenny Mostern was a tenured professor at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville when he decided to pack it in. When he did, he wrote On Being Postacademic (a must-read for academic leavers). In this podcast interview, he explains the winding path from teaching English literature to founding his own business running elections for unions (more proof that your post-academic job doesn’t necessarily have to have much direct linkage to your research!). Like so many other former academics I’ve interviewed, Kenny ultimately points to happiness (or lack thereof) as the driving factor for his escape from academia. I gotta tell ya, I like this running theme.
Press play to hear the podcast (or click here for the URL). Check out the highlights:
- 1:30 – 4:45 Kenny discusses his reasons for leaving and how he made the decision to put his family life first.
- 4:45 -8:30 We talk about the idea of security that ostensibly goes along with having tenure and the things that make people feel like they can’t escape academia (including the “I can’t do anything else” feeling).
- 8:30 – 11:45 His first post-academic job was at an arts non-profit, where he was able to cultivate his entrepreneurial skills, which is what helped him launch his businesses. Kenny is very frank about the five years of economic struggle that he faced, and the necessity of financially relying on his partner.
- 11:45 – 17:00 Kenny details the work he does managing elections and how he happened to fall into doing this, plus the skills he brought from his academic work.
- 17:00 – 19:30 The keys to his success? Guts, the support of a partner, strong analytical skills, putting himself “in opportunity’s way,” statistical knowledge, openness and having no immediate financial need.
- 19:30 – 21:00 Should people take a non-dream job when leaving academia? It depends. Tenured posts offer both a monthly cheque and no one looking over your shoulder. You may have to choose between the two.
- 21:00 – 22:20 The last few minutes of this podcast are probably my favourite out of any I’ve ever recorded.
Tagged as:
podcast
I first heard of Rebecca Steinitz way back in 2006 when I was making the decision about whether or not to leave academia. The once-tenured professor had written an article for Inside Higher Ed about why she chose to leave academia that; it was a piece that, at the time, reassured me that my thoughts about getting out of the scholarship trade weren’t completely crazy. The piece is well worth reading if you’re someone who has ever wrestled with yourself over whether or not to ditch the ivory tower (and if you’re reading this blog, that probably means you). It was my pleasure, then, to phone Dr. Steinitz at her home in Boston and talk a little bit about her former life in academe, her choice to leave and the eminently satisfying work that she does now.
Click on the “play” triangle below to hear the podcast.
Some of the highlights include:
- 1:30 – 2:15 Why she wrote her article for IHE–and the one thing she’d change.
- 2:15 – 8:00 She was a successful academic, yet she had to face up to the aspects of the academic life she didn’t like–and discovered that she wasn’t unique in thinking about leaving.
- 8:00 – 11:00 Academia creates abjection; while your non-academic friends are developing their lives, academics are continually in a subordinate position, depending on the approval of others, not feeling grownup, leading to an acute self-doubt.
- 11:00 – 12:30 The hostile comments at her IHE article demonstrates how defensive people were about Rebecca speaking the truth about the lives of so many academics–and no, not the happy ones.
- 12:30 – 14:45 Why getting tenure doesn’t always make you happy; how external measures of her success suggested that she stay in the profession.
- 14:45 – 16:45 How well she’s “hacking it” in the real world as a writer, editor and educational consultant, and how this work emerges out of her former academic work
- 16:45 – 20:45 How she transitioned into her post-academic career, including the 1.5 years she spent networking and job-hunting before she left her tenured post. “It’s work that I’m passionate about, it’s work that feels very meaningful to me, it’s work that uses my skills.”
- 20:45 – 22:45 Networking, saying yes to opportunity and staying flexible have been the keys to her success. She left academia because she said to herself, “I don’t feel about my life the way I want to feel about my life.” Having multifaceted career works for her. Luck plays a role.
- 22:45 – 26:15 Her advice is to look at your reasons for wanting to leave: how much is it about you or your circumstances? Her other suggestion is to try to arrange for a substantive leave of absence: “It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.”
Listen to the podcast here.
Apologies, listeners! The last 20 seconds of the podcast (you know, the part where I give my contact info and tell you the music is by Soft Copy) got cut off for some reason. Computer: 1. Me: 0.
Tagged as:
podcast
This week’s podcast, kicking off a fresh batch of blog posts on the topic of transferable skills, is fitting (listen to the first few minutes and you’ll see why). Shane McCleary started off her academic career studying art history, but at the ABD stage and feeling weary of the academic life, Shane called it quits. She has got a story from when she first landed in the job market that will make you wince–but the good news is that Shane ended up putting her smarts, love of culture and bubbly personality to work in the field of film and television sales.
.
- 3:00 – 5:00: Her wince-worthy story of when she first hit the job market
- 5:00 – 6:00: Cold calling, being prepared at interviews and trial and error is what led to her first job
- 6:00 – 8:00: How she felt like she got out of prison when she left academia [Ed. note: Been there!]; she thought she could switch gears quickly, but the decompression period and transition to talking like a normal person took months [Ed. note: Been there!]
- 8:00 – 9:00: The difficulties she faced in making the leap
- 9:00 – 10:00: How she got into sales and why she ended up loving it
- 10:00 – 11:00: The overlap between sales and academia (presenting, writing, follow-up, persistence, competition).
- 11:00 – 12:00: The importance of knocking on enough doors to find one person who’ll believe in you and give you a chance.
- 12:00 – 13:00: Leaving is tough. But take the messages from the sector that you’re getting into, and play down you education if that’s what you’re hearing from prospective employers.
- 13:00 – 14:00: Don’t doubt yourself because confidence can be the element that helps you climb the ladder.
Download the 15-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
podcast,
television
Sharon Blady is an NDP MLA (Member of the Legislative Assembly) in the Manitoba provincial legislature (for my American readers, this means Sharon is an elected representative in the government of one of Canada’s ten provinces). Sharon has ABD status in her Ph.D. program in women’s studies at York University in Toronto. How did she go from critiquing government policy to forming government policy? I phoned her at her office at the legislature in Winnipeg to find out.
In this podcast, you’ll hear:
- 1:30 – 2:15: Sharon discusses her dissertation research
- 2:15 – 4:00: Sharon’s academic research does link to her work as an MLA. But this is not the line of work she thought she was going to go into
- 4:00 – 7:00 : How she thought she could translate material that she taught into the civil service or working as a consultant in the private sector
- 7:00 – 9:00: But then someone asked her to run for office. “But I’m an academic!” she thought, and a shit-disturber, to boot
- 9:00 – 10:00: The transition to politics has had its moments
- 10:00 – 12:20: Why teaching is still her passion, why she misses her students and why the students are the reason she does the work that she does now
- 12:20 – 13:45: How she brings her academic experience into policy-making
- 13:45 – 15:00: Her view on being a woman and a feminist in politics
- 15:00 – 16:00: Why the transition to politics has been a good fit
- 16:00 – 17:30: Sharon’s plan to return to academia full-time
- 17:30 – 20:00: Her advice on thinking through transferable skills
Listen to the 21-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
podcast,
politics
I first heard of Dr. Shereen El Feki a few years ago, when Al Jazeera was launching its new English-language channel. As a Canadian of Egyptian and Welsh heritage, Shereen was being interviewed on CBC, discussing her new role as a presenter on Al Jazeera International. Wow, I thought. She’s got a Ph.D. in molecular immunology and she’s a journalist? Three years later, I tracked her down, phoned her up, and was delighted to discover that in addition to her credentials and fascinating career trajectory, she’s got heaps of personality, to boot.
In this podcast, you’ll hear Shereen discuss stuff like this:
- 1:40 – 4:40: How it dawned on her that being a scientist was not a good fit for her
- 4:40 – 6:20: How she started her writing career for the Economist
- 6:50 – 10:40: The important role that timing played in Shereen’s career transition to journalism (hint: she owes it all to Dolly the sheep)
- 10:40 – 12:30: Why the change from the lab to a newsmagazine wasn’t that difficult and why it was so enjoyable
- 12:30 – 14:40: Making the transition from the Economist to being a TV presenter on Al Jazeera International, and her parallel career moderating conferences
- 14:40 -16:50: How 9/11 changed her life, her career trajectory and the work she does in and on the Middle East now
- 16:50 – 18:00: Her unpredictable career path and the role her Ph.D. in immunology played
- 18:00 – 20:10: Why adaptability is the key to her success–and yours–and why persistence is an outmoded virtue
- 20:10 – 22:00: The importance of embracing risk as another key to success, especially if you’re a woman
- 22:00 – 24:50: The portfolio career as an option for former academics
- 24:50 – 26:00: How different her life is from how she expected it would unfold; “Thank God I did this, because I just feel supremely useful.”
- 26:00 – 27:20: The role of luck and encouragement in her life.
Listen to the 29-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
journalism,
podcast,
portfolio career
This is the third in my three-part series of podcasts with Dr. Krista Scott-Dixon. The first two podcasts focussed on Krista’s career transition from a women’s studies Ph.D. to a web editor, magazine editor and research director. This third and final podcast touches on some of the problems in academia that alienate people and make them want to leave. You might find yourself identifying with what Krista talks about, which includes:
- 1:45 – 5:45: Krista explains her accomplishments (like finishing her Ph.D. in four years) aren’t a result of being particularly exceptional, but are just a matter of showing up and doing the work–even when you suck at it.
- 5:45 – 8:45: What she learned from Gail Sheehy’s book Pathfinders
: that people who are successful were able to mobilize their life crises and turn them into learning experiences.
- 8:45 – 11:50: Academics are working under a Cartesian mind/body model. “We are here for our brains; our bodies are containers to carry our brains around.”
- 11:50 – 14:50: Do academics live in an ivory tower? Yes, says Krista, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have any social obligations.
- 14:50 – 18:30: Original ideas in academia are often disparaged in favour of critique but the vampiric drain of continual critique without creation makes it difficult to sustain yourself.
Listen to the 19-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
podcast
Krista Scott-Dixon was an academic superstar. She had great teaching evaluations, she’d published a couple of books, she had articles in peer-reviewed journals, she’d won external funding, and most amazing of all, she finished her Ph.D. in just under four years (yes, you read that right–four years). She was set for that glorious tenure-track appointment we’ve all fantasized about.
But after working at a research institute while doing some contract teaching, Krista decided she’d had enough of the academic life. Now she’s the research director for the Healthy Food Bank, editor-in-chief of Spezzatino magazine, web editor for Precision Nutrition and a weightlifting powerhouse. And she’s got so many interesting things to say that our conversation spans three different podcasts.
This first podcast covers:
- 0:00 – 2:00: intro
- 2:00 – 9:00 the intense feelings you have when you’re thinking of leaving academia, including panic, feeling stuck, and, “I’m not qualified to do anything else, so I might as well just be here.”
- 9:00 – 11:00: her lateral move to a research-based job in health care (and how she got the job)
- 11:00 – 14:00: the story of her decision to bust out of research and into a career path that she boldy forged on her own
- 14:00 – 18:00: how she applied her women’s studies Ph.D. to weight training (”It’s all about transfer of research and information”).
Listen to the 20-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
podcast
Last week’s podcast was with Dr. Krista Scott-Dixon, a Ph.D. in women’s studies who is now a web editor, magazine editor and a research director (not to mention a woman who knows her way around the weight room at the gym). This week, I post two more podcasts with Krista, simply because she had so much great stuff to say that I didn’t want to deny your ears any of it.
Podcast two with Dr. Scott-Dixon gives you all this goodness:
- 1:00 – 3:40: Krista advises not to get preoccupied with the job title you want, but the job that will allow you to mobilize your values–and stay open to the awesome things that will happen to you.
- 3:40 – 5:00: why Krista was so afraid to leave academia. “I’m going to spend 40 years freaking out about what might happen when I turn 65. That’s a little bit stupid.”
- 5:00 – 7:00: how she became the editor-in-chief of a food magazine that supports a local non-profit.
- 7:00 – 9:40: how being a magazine editor uses the skills she cultivated in academia: finding cool researchers, collecting stories, doing research, doing talks, mobilizing her knowledge of migration, employment, identity.
- 9:40 – 17:20: Three of Krista’s four pieces of advice for academic-leavers: 1) how to know if you should leave or not, 2) how to know what you can do, 3) how to figure out what to do next, 4) recognize that you may come out of academia feeling really traumatized and you’re going to need some self-care.
Listen to the 19-minute podcast here (did you miss the first one? Don’t worry, it’s here).
Tagged as:
podcast
Back in 2007, I conducted a small series of interviews for the first incarnation of the Leaving Academia podcast. Some of those interviews ended up being hosted by University Affairs. This is one of them.
This interview is with Polly Washburn, a film and television producer who decided that instead of studying language, she wanted to play with it. This interview highlights a few interesting things:
- if you’re not sure if you want to stay or go, try arranging a leave of absence from your program
- if your values run counter to the values of your discipline, you may want to reconsider where you’re at
- going back to school (in Polly’s case, the screenwriting program at the Canadian Film Centre) can open the door to a whole new world
- be aware of the reasons why you’re doing a Ph.D.
Listen to the 10-minute podcast here.
A final note: since conducting this interview with me, Polly has gone on to launch her own film and television production company and pursue even more her crazy, creative dreams. I’ll post a follow-up interview with Polly within the next few weeks.
Tagged as:
podcast,
TV production
Back in 2007, I conducted a small series of interviews for the first incarnation of the Leaving Academia podcast. Some of those interviews ended up being hosted by University Affairs. This is one of them.
This interview is with Gaby Zezulka-Mailloux, a Ph.D. from the University of Alberta who took her background researching environmental issues for her dissertation and parlayed them into a job as a “rabblerouser” in the not-for-profit sector.
My interview with Gaby highlights a few things:
- Gaby’s passion for her topic material (the environment) guided her Ph.D. research and guided her into her first post-academic job.
- She wanted her dissertation to be a practical document with real working solutions in it, so she took a legal angle. This interdisciplinary approach made it difficult for her to get an academic job in an English department (or in any other discipline) but fed directly into her post-academic job.
- One of the key benefits she got from her grad school experience was that it thickened her skin, which helped prepare her for the work she does speaking to the media and politicians.
- She also notes that her research skills were a key transferable skill.
- Gaby’s advice for those thinking of leaving academia? “Go for it.”
A final note: at the time of this interview, Gaby wasn’t 100% certain that she had left academia forever. As it turns out, she has returned to the ivory tower. I will be posting a follow-up interview with her within a few weeks.
Listen to the 13-minute podcast here.
Tagged as:
not-for-profit,
podcast,
profile
